Heartbeat of Irish Music

Episode 15-Heartbeat of Irish Music
Tapping in to forces that shape our rhythm
This Irish Music Stories episode aired April 10, 2018
https://shannonheatonmusic.com/episode-15-heartbeat-of-irish-music/

Deep thanks to John Ploch for preparing this transcript!
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Speakers, in order of appearance:

>> Shannon Heaton: flute player, singer, composer, teacher, and host of Irish Music Stories

>> Nigel Heaton: young announcer for Irish Music Stories, and co-producer of this story

>> Eileen Ivers: New York-based Grammy-winning fiddle player, composer, and bandleader who has performed around the globe

>> Nic Gareiss: Michigan-born acclaimed dancer, musician, and dance researcher 

>> Marla Fibish: San Francisco-born mandolin player and teacher who performs with husband guitarist as the duo Noctambule 

>> Sean Clohessy: Limerick-born fiddle player and teacher, who spent time learning music in London before relocating to New York and Boston

>> Jimmy Keane: Chicago-based accordion player born in London of Irish-speaking parents from Connemara and Kerry

———

>> Shannon: Before I start the show, I wanted to thank everybody for listening. And for sharing episodes with your friends. And a special thank you to this month’s donors, read by my son Nigel.

>> Nigel: Thank you to Art Costa, Peter Bartman, Eoin Stan O’Sullivan, Holly Foy and John Hruschka, and Brian Benscoter

>> Shannon: If you can kick in, please visit IrishMusicStories.org. Your support helps me pull together different voices and views of the world… all through an Irish music and dance lens. So, THANK you!

And… I’m Shannon Heaton. And This is Irish Music Stories, the show about traditional music, and the much bigger stories behind it.

[ Music: “John’s Theme,” from Production Music Made for Irish Music Stories
Artist/Composer: Matt Heaton ]

Like how fiddle player Eileen Ivers dances a rock-steady jig rhythm, with her bow arm.

>> Eileen: We’re here for the dancer to lift their feet—to get the dancer to want to feel like they want to dance and that’s, all of a sudden Bang, plug anything into that and then you kind of have your Irish jig.

>>Shannon: And how dancer Nic Gareiss can stretch and pull that jig groove, even without his shoes on.

>> Nic: In my stocking feet, now on this floor, I can shuffle like a jig rhythm without really letting my weight fall to the ground. And it will sound pretty consistent—almost like a telegraph machine. 

[Nic dancing softly]

>>Shannon counting: One, two, three, four. Six. One, two three four …

>>Nic: So, now if engage my body weight and drop it onto the floor…

[Nic dancing louder]

>>Shannon: Yeah.

>>Nic: This creates a really strong accent, right? And you can change that accent.

>> Shannon: No matter how or where you feel it, dance tunes are rhythmic creations. And we are rhythmic creatures. And the way we play, and dance is shaped by our instruments, our bodies, our intentions, our culture, and maybe magical forces, too.

In this episode I talk to Eileen and Nic, and mandolin player Marla Fibish, and accordion player Jimmy Keane. And we explore the heartbeat of Irish music, together.

>>Shannon: OK, so here’s what playing an Irish reel can feel like for me. 

[ Music: “Maid Behind the Bar,” flute rhythm demo
Artist: Shannon Heaton ]

I’m playing this tune “The Maid Behind The Bar” but while I play the tune, this is what I’m hearing, imagining and relating to throughout the tune:

[ Shannon plays “The Maid Behind The Bar” ]

• • I’m hearing that low D
• • And here are my feet moving in response to what I’m actually feeling internally and what I’m hearing
• • And then this is what I hear inside, while I’m playing the tune. [ Shannon’s breathwork ]

Sure, I also play with ornamentation. I vary the melody of the tune. But above all, for me, this deep pulse is the lifeblood of playing any Irish tune.

>>Shannon: Eileen Ivers demonstrated this beautifully from a fiddle perspective. We talked about rhythm over really strong tea. 

>>Eileen Ivers: When I teach, I love to talk about rhythm and I always say to the class, “Look guys, you know, you might want to learn about all these fancy ornaments. But Irish music is not about that, it’s really about rhythm. Primarily it’s dance music. We’re here for the dancer to feel that rhythm that’s going to lift them in the air or bang them on the ground on the Off or On beats.” And of course, the ornaments fall into that, and fall into the rhythmic composition of the tune. Sometimes with class, I just say “Guys, no left hand—just take your bow arm and just play like an open D. I won’t even maybe teach the notes yet of a tune, but just get the students to just kind of play the jig as a 1-2-3… 1-2-3… 1-2-3. And I always say, “It’s not even, even though the dots are written in an even way, it’s more Long-Short-Short, Long-Short-Short.”

>>Shannon: So, the jig you just played…

>>Eileen: Right, a D.

>>Shannon: Some people might term “Swing Rhythm”

>>Eileen: Um hmm.

>>Shannon: Which is a real bummer…

>>Eileen: (Snickering)

>>Shannon: You know, to see that notated and to see somebody maybe try to extrapolate that…

>>Eileen: Yup.

>>Shannon: What I hear you doing is like an Irish jig-gy uneven kind of a lift.

>>Eileen: Right, Lift. Great word.

>>Shannon: Or what I would call it…it’s true there is a swing-y thing going on…

>>Eileen: Right

>>Shannon: How do you show people the difference between like a swing that you find like, I don’t know, in a jazz and like that very particular kind of Irish feel?

>>Eileen: Good, good question, I think…the Irish thing is very subtle. Because it’s just—it’s nearly like a gallop or something like that. I think when people play in that kind of a swing, and of course on the fiddle—and every instrument has its own tricks—slurring and where to slur, it’s gonna make it kind of fit into that. It plugs into that little…[ Eileen scats a jig rhythm ] It’s not as distinct, it’s blurred.  Gallop is a good way to look at it. 

>>Shannon: OK, so Eileen establishes that gallop. That particular rhythmic feel. You know, how it grooves. That’s not the same as speed. Speed is how fast or how slow you play. Depending on the tune, Eileen might have a slightly different feel—and she’s going to play different tunes at different speeds. But through it all, there’s a consistent rhythmic style. There’s a real Eileen Ivers sound.

[ Music: “Apples In Winter,” from An Nollaig: An Irish Christmas
Artist: Eileen Ivers ]

>>Shannon: Looking back, can you figure out how you developed your own rhythmic sense?

>>Eileen: My parents, like so many as well, came off from Ireland, County Mayo, and they wanted to raise both myself and my sister in Irish tradition. First teacher, Martin Mulvalhill, he was such a rhythmic player, God rest him. And he was a beautiful, beautiful man. He would teach and he would just emote, again, the music and embody it in such a way that when he played over you, you really got it, you know? He would play into like a little recording device—as we know that’s the way we all learned tunes—and he would just kind of play and he’d smile, and just be at one with his instrument. And really lift from his sort of West Kerry/Limerick style, the music. So that was like one of the first, I think, influences of just rhythm and how Martin embodied it, and how he showed it.

>>Shannon: Later on, Eileen learned from listening to jazz violinists.

>>Eileen: I think maybe just those early years, I was in my 20’s and I was constantly going into the city and hearing the great Grappelli at the Blue Note, just the full-on experience, Jean Luc Ponte. Different ways people play this amazing instrument. 

>>Shannon: And then she spent a year on the road with Hall and Oates.

>>Eileen: I got a call to do a recording with Daryl Hall and John Oates—great, great duo and amazing band. And, Shannon, I just shut up and listened and learned. I was schooled in the most wonderful way. Nine to six to seven pm rehearsals up in Pauling in their studio. Their harmonies were so spot on, the attack, the vowels, the dynamics, falling off the notes. They thought about this so carefully. The way myself and the cellist who made the small string section up, how we attacked notes, and we blended with the sax player, Charlie DeShant, he was an amazing musician. Really opened my eyes, blew me away actually.

[ Music: “Only Love” from Change of Season
Artist/Composer: Daryl Hall & John Oates ]

>>Shannon: All these lessons from outside the trad music world layered over Eileen’s base. That foundation that she got from other trad musicians and then developing her own informed Irish rhythmic style.

>>Shannon: So, do you still play with other people for fun? Do you still keep the sessions as kind of a home base?

>>Eileen: You need that, it’s like oxygen, you know. If you’re away for too long it’s um, you know, it’s…you just need it, you know. It’s inside you. I mean, it’s fine to play tunes, maybe, in your hotel room. But as we know, the socialness of our music and our tradition and chatting about the tunes and chatting about life, you know?

>>Shannon: Yes.

>>Eileen: And there’s no shortcuts to it. It’s like get out and start playing and assimilate. Get out and play in sessions. Then you slowly, I think for students of our tradition, you know, start to feel it. 

[ Music: “Triumph Theme,” from Production Music Made for Irish Music Stories
Artist/Composer: Matt Heaton ]

>>Shannon: Like Eileen said, if you’re a trad musician, you get out and you play in the circle of musicians. Ideally, you play with musicians who play better than you do and that’s what keeps you learning and keeps your ego in check. You learn by tapping in to the community…in to the circle of players, sitting around a table playing tunes. 

That’s how I learn. Sure, I also listen to lots of recorded music. And I practice on my own. But no amount of solo practice feeds me like playing in the circle does.

Of course, it’s not always easy to get in to that circle in the first place. You have to seek it out. You have to put yourself out there. I’ll bet for Eileen it was a fairly natural social and cultural journey. Her parents are both from Ireland, and she feels Irish music in her marrow. 

And she feels Irish music in her fiddle. Eileen’s sense of pulse has also been shaped by the instrument she plays. 

The instrument you play really affects how you do rhythm. How you feel it. How you get the rhythm across:  fiddle bow, flute breath, accordion bellows, mandolin plectrum, the soles of your shoes. These are all tools. And they all present different opportunities and challenges. 

Here’s mandolin player Marla Fibish.

>> Marla Fibish: for many years, thought that adapting music for my instrument was cheating. And I’ve come to realize that everybody is doing it, right? There are certain strengths and limitations of every instrument, which is what makes it sound different—I just always thought I was cheating. 

>>Shannon: Every instrument has its own magic and wisdom. Marla brings her mando perspective to lots of players at teaching camps around the country. In fact, we chatted when we were both teaching in beautiful Portal, Arizona. Marla offered me really nice dark chocolate, which is not required of these interviews. But it might be good to make that a more regular thing on the show, I’m just saying…

[ Shannon and Marla laughter and banter ]

>>Shannon: I asked Marla how she teaches rhythm.

>>Marla: Most of the people that I’m working with have not grown up listening to Irish music, have not heard it for years and years. So, I’m gonna want to get them going in a certain pattern, to give them the best opportunity, the best odds of getting the physicality, the pulse of the music through their physicality on the instrument. I get the right hand going in the patterns—in the rhythmic patterns.

>>Shannon: Like what kinds of stuff do you have them doing?

>>Marla: Like we’re taking really simple [ plucks single mandolin strin g] just open strings, not even worrying about the left hand. [ rhythmically plays open string ] So like if we were just going to …

>>Shannon: So, just to dial in 

>>Marla: [ continues rhythmically playing open string ] So, if we were to get a rhythm going, and think about it in the context of the rhythms of Irish music.

[ Music: “Paddy Canny’s Toast” from A Sweetish Tune
Artist: Noctambule (Marla Fibish, Bruce Victor) ]

>>Marla: As a teacher you hope by force of will, and sort of the weight of your presence to get them going in series. But when that fails, I give them exercises. (both laughing!)

>>Shannon: So, do we develop a sense of rhythm from our teachers? Whether they’re our formal music teachers that we’re taking a lesson with, or they’re people that we sort of sit beside in a session frequently or people that inspire us. Is that a big way that we get…

>>Marla: I think absolutely. Yeah, yeah. I think that’s a beautiful way to sum it up. Yeah. We’re gonna develop it from our teachers, wherever we find them. Yeah.

If you were to be completely literal and not believe in magic, maybe, you would say you would understand the rhythms in the music from listening to the music. And I think that is, to a large degree, where it comes from.

>>Shannon: From hearing other people play.

>>Marla: From hearing other people play.

>>Shannon: Is there another more mystical way that you get that rhythm?

>>Marla: Yeah, I think there is. I think, um, it’s in the ether in some ways. And everyone has their own way they interpret the rhythms. We’ve all had these experiences where you sit down to play with somebody. And from the first bar, you are locked in, rhythmically. Now, where does that come from? Because we’ve all had the opposite experience. We sit down to play with somebody and it’s difficult. You have to figure out how to play together. 

>>Shannon: And that can happen with people who have never met each other?

>>Marla: Absolutely. The way their heart beats. Or the way their physical bodies respond to the rhythm and resonate.

>>Shannon: Right.

>>Shannon: It’s like what fiddle player Sean Clohessy said in “Handed Down”—that’s Irish Music Stories Episode 5.

Sean Clohessy excerpt from live show:

“We have rhythm all around us in ways that we’re not conscious of, whether it’s, you know, breathing, or heartbeat or blinking. You know, walking, seasons–everything. There’s rhythm in everything.  And I think that one of the things Irish music, it’s an easy way to connect in, and to feel and perceive these rhythms. This practice is a way to awaken a lot of these things, and experience things, and touch things, and see things in a way that we can’t see with our eyes.”

[ Music: “Meaning of Life,” from Production Music Made for Irish Music Stories
Artist/Composer: Matt Heaton ]

>>Shannon: Back in Arizona, Marla talked about tapping into this practice together:

>>Marla: I think you learn it by playing with others. You feel it, you feel a pulse together. And your bodies are moving together as well. There are visual cues, and kinesthetic cues that we get from the people we’re playing with.

>>Shannon: So, rhythm is living and breathing.

>>Marla: Absolutely.

>>Shannon: It doesn’t get more visual and kinesthetic than using your body as an instrument. Dancer and musical soul Nic Gareiss shook up my worldview during our nourishing midday chat—with ginger tea. No chocolate.

>>Nic Gareiss: I think the important thing to remember if you’re talking about rhythm or time or timing, at large, is that there is sort of a thing happening in your body already. And that can be a reference point. Your body is made of water and tissue, you know. It’s not made of gears and springs or microchips. So, I think to expect us to behave in a kind of metronomic way is to, you know, a big ask for our bodies. 

>>Shannon: Wow!

>>Nic: Yeah.

>>Shannon: Nic has embraced the idea that metronomic time like this: [ Sound of a metronome followed by metronomic playing of tune on flute ]. Might be less true to our nature than something from agogic, like this: [ same tune played on flute with Irish lift ].

>>Nic: Whether I’m working with a fiddler Caoimhín Ó Raghallaigh in “This Is How We Fly” or with harpist Maeve Gilchrist, or composer and fiddle player Cleek Shrey, time is something we talk about a lot. And for example, on “This Is How We Fly” we have a band member who is from Sweden named Petter Berndalen, who is a drummer, and he introduced the band to this concept of agogic time which would be like a musical accent that’s created by lengthening or compressing a phrase but without changing the tempo. So, there’s this kind of sense of ballooning or constriction—almost like if you’re going up—I’ve heard Caoimhín talk about it—if you’re going up on a roller coaster and as you crest over the top [ Nic sings in agogic timing ] you kind of catch with the sort of physics of that situation. 

So that became really inspiring and I started listening a little bit more and a little bit more deeply to a lot of older musicians. People like Denis Murphy, Julia Clifford, or maybe people like Eleanor Neary from Chicago and thinking about this idea of time. Maybe somebody like Tommy Potts where there’s a sense of agency and play with time. And so that became really inspiring and kind of liberating in a way, or something. I felt like I didn’t need to maybe lock myself into that grid of having quote “good time.” And eventually I came to just see that idea as a really colonial idea—that idea of “good time” in the same way that we talk about temper tuning, right?

>>Shannon: Wow.

>>Nic: Maybe this is an idea doesn’t necessarily…isn’t that extant in Irish music in its natural environment.

[ Music: “Man of Few Words” from Foreign Fields
Artist: This is How We Fly ]

>>Shannon: So, how come when I plug into a rhythm, and yeah, that I’m maybe finding with other players, it can feel great. Just like [ poof sound ] plug in and go. That feels fantastic.

>>Nic: I mean, you studied for a long time! And for as long as my body would let me, I studied with a metronome as well. Um so yeah, so we can revert to that idea: OK, let’s just go. 

>>Shannon: Yeah.

>>Nic: And that can feel kind of satisfying… 

>>Shannon: Yeah, it sure does.

>>Nic: …as well. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. But I do think there needs to be space left for those moments where agogic phrasing happens. So, I think that there…you know because of the commercial conventions, sometimes we don’t always leave space for that as much. And I think it’s important to see that as part of the picture.

>>Shannon: Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me, and it gets me thinking. That maybe sometimes it is my default to just kind of [ poof sound ] find that zone and ride that rhythmic wave. And that sometimes listening a little deeper is not a bad thought. Thank you for that. And at the same time, it is interesting how innate it feels for me.

>>Nic: What I would suggest, humbly, I know it might be controversial… but is this idea that time is culturally couched. That we experience the passage of time, and rhythm and pacing, and what feels fast and what feels slow, differently based on where we’re from and the culture we come from.

>>Shannon: That’s beautiful. And tough!

>>Nic: But wonderful!

>>Shannon: And what do you do with it?

[ More music from “Man Of Few Words” ]

>>Nic: I mean, I think for me it leaves it open to this incredible dialog that can occur, where you never really know it all the way. That, to me, becomes endlessly nourishing and animating and invigorating. And that’s when I don’t feel alone, having this kind of conversation around time.

>>Shannon: Now Nic has a supreme command and awareness of pulse. He has the technique, the ability to lock in with a player, no matter where she feels the beat. So, when Nic talks about playing with time, I don’t think he’s advocating a lack of discipline with rhythm. This, for example is not agogic feel, it’s me picking up a quarter sized fiddle, an instrument that is too small for me and that I don’t play to begin with. You see, I am not familiar with the fiddle. This is not freeing. It’s limiting. And it leads to a halting, unpleasant, uneven rhythmic flow.

[ Music: “Maid Behind the Bar,” quarter-size fiddle demo
Artist: Agnes Murphy ]

>>Shannon: So, somewhat ironically, Nic can access this debate. He can talk about eschewing metronomic time and institutionalized rhythmic standards, because he already knows what a rock steady beat is. He already knows what the metronomic standards are. Because he’s got training, he can challenge that training.

>>Nic: I’m certainly a product of music and dance academy, I studied at the Irish World Academy of Music and Dance at the University of Limerick. So, I’m quite interested in the movement of traditional music into academic spaces. So, I think metronomic time is one of the things that gets imposed. It something that doesn’t necessarily have to be part of the educational process, it doesn’t have to be a part of the pedagogy of traditional music and dance. We can let this idea of flexible time, of deep listening, of responsiveness between people who engage in this music as a process of socialization occur even at the very beginning stages. 

>>Shannon: Uh huh.

>>Nic: But it takes focus, right? It takes responding to each other. And sometimes when you have and I know this as an amateur musician myself…

>>Shannon: As a lovely bouzouki player yourself.

>>Nic: Thank you, but when I have the instrument in my hand, you know, I do feel less facility than when I’m standing with my shoes on. With an instrument that I’m still getting my hands around, it takes a lot more focus and practice for me to be available in that sense. 

>>Shannon: Guess I better work on the quarter sized fiddle playing.

[ Music: “Travel Theme,” from Production Music Made for Irish Music Stories
Artist/Composer: Matt Heaton ]

>>Shannon: Is there also some cultural aspect of rhythm in Irish music in dance that is Irisih?

>>Nic: There must be. There must be a sense of feeling something in a way that that rhythm feels like home. That that rhythm, for someone who’s from Donegal, like that particular sense of time feels like that particular place. I think for people who, like, grew up playing music in Connemara, for example, there might another different kind of rhythmic feel that occurs. And perhaps those things are influenced by a number of factors. One of the things that I like to think, as a dancer, influences them is the presence of moving bodies. So, for example in Connemara, we have a vibrant sean nos dancing tradition. In Ireland, in…and that has a deep impact upon the way the music is played in that place.

>>Shannon: Uh huh, yeah. So as an American, can you really get that?

>>Nic: Haha! Growing up, you know, in the age of folk revival, I feel lucky to have exposure to a lot of different musicians and dancers. 

[ Music: Tune: “Travel Theme,” from Production Music Made for Irish Music Stories
Artist/Composer: Matt Heaton ]

But I feel this strange insider-ness, while also being a perpetual outsider. Clifford Geertz writes that you don’t necessarily penetrate a culture, but you put yourself in its way and it enmeshes you. 

>>Shannon: Yeah

>>Nic: And I feel quite enmeshed with Irish traditional music and dance, even though I’m not from Ireland and have no ancestral connection to Ireland. So yeah, I feel real lucky to be able to have encounters and conversations and dialog with these folks, and to continue to have that be part of my experience.

>>Shannon: Dance music of Ireland is physical. And it is cultural. Certainly, there are built-in cultural constructs, of which we might not even be aware. Maybe there are more mystical forces at work, too. Surely, there’s always room for deeper listening, deeper attention, and more flexibility in that circle of musicians and dancers.

So, Eileen Ivers started as a kid in the Bronx. Her Irish parents took her to play in the circle. And I have a hunch that this might have been a more organic entry than the Jewish mandolin enthusiast in California—learning at a time when there weren’t always other women going out to Irish sessions. Here’s Marla again:

>>Shannon: So, this Jewish girl from San Francisco, how do you get into playing Irish music?

[ Music: “After Hours Theme,” from Production Music Made for Irish Music Stories
Artist/Composer: Matt Heaton ]

>>Marla: Yeah, I feel like, at certain moments in your life, something finds you. You know, you walk through a door that you didn’t know was there. And you may not realize that you walked through it for some years thereafter. And then you’re like, oh, here I am!

>>Shannon: And have you felt welcomed?

>>Marla: I have! I have. I think your term of the meritocracy, right? If you can play the music, you’re welcome here.

>>Shannon: Yeah, that’s a big if. That’s a big investment of time.

>>Marla: It’s a BIG investment of time. (both laughing) Yeah.

>>Shannon: And if you’re willing to make it, come on in. 

>>Marla Which is, yeah,. it’s a big deal. But boy is it a rich place to find oneself, you know. 

>>Shannon: Yeah.

>>Marla: And if ever I’m feeling left out, it’s when I realize my own lack of knowledge and my own lack of history. And that that’s the only thing that makes me feel left out and not fully participating.

>>Shannon: Right. Even though you have done a great deal of work…

>>Marla: Yeah.

>>Shannon: …there’s lots more to do?

>>Marla: Yeah, there’s lots more to do.

>>Shannon: And there’s always gonna be people who know lots more than we do.

>>Marla: Absolutely: I just… aaa! Can I have a seat on the bus? 

>>Shannon: Yeah.

>>Marla: It can be in the back. I just wanna be on the bus.

>>Shannon: Yeah. Cool.

>>Shannon: So, Marla has hopped on board—musically and socially. But she still feels some of that living pulse and humanity from recordings, too.

>>Marla: I love a recording that has not had that produced out of it, if you will, in terms of a pristine recording environment. When you can actually hear the vague thump of a little foot tap…

>>Shannon: The breath of the flute.

>>Marla: …and the breath on the flute, and the hair on the bow touching the strings

>>Shannon: And the chiff of the plectrum. 

>>Marla: Uh huh, exactly. I love that. Love that. Yep. Yep.

>> Jimmy Keane: I think the instrument you play makes a difference too. Just the physical nature of the accordion. It creates some rhythm…

>>Shannon: Right.

>>Jimmy…and it more than likely if it’s going to be the rhythm that’s actually in the tune. 

>>Shannon: Yeah.

>>Jimmy: And sometimes it’ll just be extra rhythm because you have to shift back in to get that note. So you know, the instrument…a lot of times the instrument dictates or actually enhances whatever you’re doing.

>>Shannon: That’s accordion player Jimmy Keane. He and I met up at the Milwaukee Irish Fest. We talked about rhythm in an empty conference room, until a bunch of banjo players with ponytails came in and started rehearsing Beatles songs.

>>Jimmy: I just came across a great recording. Um, it’s Cormac Begley, the concertina star, right? And he’s actually using, he’s using the instrument, the air button, he’s recording that as a part of the thing. And you know, by the natural fact of going in and out with the bellows to get those notes. Usually, you try to cover them up, much the same key flick, and all that other stuff, he’s brought all that out.

[ Music: “Yellow Tinker,” from Cormac Begley 2017
Artist: Cormac Begley ]

>>Shannon: And also by doing it on a lower concertina, too, it REALLY brings out the sound. 

>>Jimmy: Oh, yeah!

>>Shannon: It has an incredible quality.

>>Jimmy: I mean, the opening track is brilliant.

>>Shannon: Yeah.

>>Jimmy: Yeah, it’s great. It’s like a train just taking off!

>>Shannon: It feels like a train taking off when Jimmy plays. A big, strong, mighty train. But there’s such sweetness and playfulness in there, too. Maybe that’s because Jimmy gives it time. Time to unfold. Jimmy is unhurried as he moves from one tune to the next. Where many of us play a tune three times around and then switch to the next one, Jimmy stays with that first tune for much, much longer. That’s another way of playing with time.

[ Music: “Boys of Bluehill, Westport Jig,” from Live at the Acadia Trad School

Artist: Jimmy Keane ]

>>Jimmy: I never liked the notion of just playing a tune twice and then switching. So, I mean, I’d like to, you know, playing ten times a tune at minimum. 

>>Shannon: Yeah.

>>Jimmy: Because there’s no time (A.) to get into the tune yourself. And never mind someone listening. I think sometimes that leads to the “oh sure it all sounds the same.” Well yeah because if you’re only playing for two minutes and then switch to another tune, how are you going to distinguish…

>>Shannon: Right.

>>Jimmy: …if you’ve had not seasoned an ear enough, right? So, you know—and I found if you play longer people can start picking out notes. My wife doesn’t play. She likes music. But she’ll all of a sudden—oh, I liked that tune because it did this, or something like that. If I played for two seconds, you’d never get a chance to process it, you know. So, I’ve always liked that, doing that. And plus, you didn’t have to learn as many tunes then!

One of the things I love about old timey music. They’ll play tunes, you know, 20-30 times. And all of a sudden you just get caught up, it’s like, what do you call it, dervish dancing?

>>Shannon: Yeah, a whirling dervish.

>>Jimmy: Yeah, it becomes a thing in and of itself. So, you really get caught up on it. It’s not necessarily like a jam band; you know like noodling. Because there is really a tune.

>>Shannon: So, giving yourself a chance to play the tune numerous times around. That’s a way that you’ve gotten in to playing with that rhythm?

>>Jimmy: Well yeah, off course you play off the rhythm then too. Sometimes you know, if you’ve got a really kind of punchy kind of a rhythmic section, you can counteract that with just playing a bit more legato and not really stressing points. Or stressing a different…like the back beat more than the head beat or whatever the case may be, you know. And it depends on every variable what you’re feeling like in the moment. Is the instrument is functioning properly? Are your fingers functioning properly? (both laughing) I shouldn’t have had that second cup of coffee. Right? One of those things.

>>Shannon: Some years ago, you used to do that session on Southport, and uh, you would play real common tunes a number of times around. And it was really a kind of a home for a lot of students. 

>>Jimmy: We would actually, or I would teach tunes. Because if you’re going to be there for three hours…

>>Shannon: Right.

>>Jimmy: …and, you know, and we’re all learning something. Let’s learn a new tune. So, we’d just do that. And we would play like maybe 50 times. 

>>Shannon: Yeah.

>>Jimmy: And by the end of it, most of them would actually get it. And these are people who would have—I play, like you, I play by ear, you know. And most of these people would say we need the dots. Well, there’s no dots. 

>>Shannon: Right.

>>Jimmy: You’re going to do it this way, it’ll be easy. And it was great too—I remember a couple of times there’d be 20 fiddles.

>>Shannon: Yeah.

>>Jimmy: It would be great, you know. Twenty fiddles, I mean even if some were slightly out of tune, or didn’t really know the tune.  Twenty fiddles playing, it was just a great effect.

>>Shannon: It was a great effect. And the Cullens session welcomed a lot of people to the social circle of musicians. And to the practice of playing these tunes with deep rhythmic style. Chicago, and Irish music, are lucky to have an ambassador like Jimmy, opening up the trad world, and providing an incredibly strong, steady groove to mimic.

But of course, that’s just one rhythmic approach.

>>Jimmy: Say a tune like “The Boys Of Malin”. Like Donegal, fiddle playing vs. you know, Kerry slide or polka playing.  Donegal, would be slightly more straight.

[ Music: “Boys of Malin,” from Traditional Irish & Cape Breton Music: From a Distant Shore

Artist: Ciarán Tourish ]

>>Shannon: Like Ciaran Tourish from Donegal. Here he’s playing the “Boys of Malin” on a collection of music from from Ireland and Cape Breton.

>>Jimmy: Versus Kerry, there’d be a bit more bend in the rhythm. 

>>Shannon: Sort of like this track with accordion player Jackie Daly. It’s not straight up Sliabh Luachra music, because he’s joined by Galway fiddle player Frankie Gavin.  But you can still hear that bend in the rhythm that Jimmy is talking about.

>>Jimmy: But I mean, they’re both equally great, but just a slightly different approach between them. And they’re very rhythmic, both of them.

>>Shannon: Yeah.

>>Jimmy: The more music anyone is exposed to, they’re going to enjoy it more. As a performing musician, it’s nice to incorporate different bits and pieces that you’ve gained over the years from listening to various stuff. You know, if you learn from someone that plays a certain way, and that’s all you really learn from, you’re gonna be some form of a clone of that. 

>>Shannon: Yeah.

>>Jimmy: And there’s nothing wrong with being a clone. I mean, if you learn to play like Seamus Connolly and you can play it like Seamus Connolly—even though you’re not Seamus Connolly, that’s great because Seamus is a brilliant style player. But I think part of the coolest part of this is because you can put your own stamp on something—you might learn a Matt Molloy tune, right. Do it exactly. But you wouldn’t play it that way. 

>>Shannon: Right.

>>Jimmy: You’re gonna play it like Shannon Heaton, right? And it’s gonna be different, because it’s gonna be a combination of everything you’ve done since you day one started playing. It’s the free will of doing whatever you want with that tune.

>>Shannon: Our rhythm is like our skin. It absorbs the lessons and the rigors of our life experiences. It’s unique. It’s elemental. It’s a product of our music lessons, our playlists, the circles in which we play, our culture.

We are rhythmic creatures. And once we’ve solidified our own rhythmic style, it can always change. Like us, our sense of pulse is a work in progress. 

[ Music: “House of Ancestors,” from Volume 1: Sound Magic
Artist: Afro Celt Sound System

We can experiment. We can travel. And as we travel, we bring our music with us. And as we travel and experiment, the world we experience gets in our music.

Sometimes the world gets in there very deliberately. It’s common for commercial trad musicians to feature non-Irish percussive elements. Sometimes it’s an epic fusion, like the Afro Celt sound system which fused electronic, Irish, and West African music. But sometimes it’s a bit more haphazard and less examined…

[stomp box]

…like slapping a stomp box loop on to a set of reels, or a vaguely Calypso riff under a fiddle tune. Here’s Eileen again.

>>Eileen: A lot of these groups now performing, and they’re trying different rhythms in our music, um you know, I think some work and some really don’t. And you have to think very thoughtfully when you want to perform on that bigger stage, and how you’re gonna make the music a little more accessible, and bringing it out there if you’re adding different rhythmic elements. 

>>Shannon: Like people adding stomp boxes?

>>Eileen: Stompbox, there you go, there’s your downbeat, I guess. Although it’s a pretty flat sound after a while. It doesn’t have that emotion that maybe a kick drummer or cajon player would play. But, you know, when you’re adding these elements of, say, from other fields of rock or jazz or world music, I think you have to be very, very careful to see how those dovetail into the tradition. Having thought about it and worked with different musicians, you know, from a South African bass playing—it’s a beautiful thing. It bubbles there, the rhythms of the bass bubble under the rhythm of a tune. So, you’re not just doing these ding dong, ding dong. It’s (skats a bass rhythm). It marries into the traditional swing of what the players are doing.

[ Music: “The Boy in the Boat” (reel), from Rehearsal
Artist: Shannon Heaton (flute), Matt Heaton (guitar)

>>Shannon: So, you take the solo groove and then you’re experimenting the other things around it that can bubble around it, that can bring it out more.

>>Eileen: For sure, you know. To put in just a standard rock beat on a tune. For me, it does nothing, you know.  But if, you know, can bring more people into being fans of our music but you’re doing it in a way that really works with the music. The music is that special. It deserves that elevation, you know.

>>Shannon: Yeah.

>>Shannon: Yeah, the music is special. Irish music touches so many thoughtful listeners. And it’s a great lens through which to view bigger constructs. Like how my own sense of time has been shaped by my culture. How my own performance is a reflection of what modern session culture rewards:  volume, muscle, showmanship. Hmmm…

Well, no matter where I go from here, I know it’ll only take me deeper in dialog with myself… and with all of you…. and with the collective heartbeat of Irish music. 

THANK you for tuning your hearts in to Irish Music Stories. Thank you to Eileen Ivers, Marla Fibish, Nic Gareiss, and Jimmy Keane for the great conversations. This episode of Irish Music Stories was produced by me, Shannon Heaton. Thank you to Matt for script editing and underscore. Thank you, Nigel, for naming this month’s supporters. And thanks again to Art Costa, Eoin Stan O’Sullivan, Holly Foy and John Hruschka, Peter Bartman, and Brian Benscoter.

If you can kick in with a show of support, it helps me pull Irish Music Stories together, to share with everybody. Just visit IrishMusicStories.org and click the donate button. You can also help by rating the show in iTunes, or by sharing this episode with a friend.

Next month’s show will feature the McComisky family. I hope you’ll tune in on Tuesday, May 8th.

Thanks again for listening, everybody!

[Out of tune fiddle accompanied by very rhythmic stomp box]